Tsiyon Messianic Community

Dear All,

Have been a bit confused lately about counting the days for a lunar shabbat. When does day one begin? The day we sight the new crescent or the day after? The confusion arises about what is a work day. Based on Eliyahu's bood Holy Time, it would seem that day one begins when the new crescent moon is sighted, but I have also read other reports that the new moon day is not counted as a work day hence day one begins the next day so we have shabbat on the 8, 15, 22 and 29 days of the month and not on 7, 14, 21, 28 as Eliyahu's book Holy Time states.

Clarification would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Carbonblack7

The next thing I would like to clarify is when Yohoshua marched around Yericho, they marched around it for seven days would not this have broken shabbat?

If I may interject a comment, not to answer for Eliyahu, but to offer an idea.

The confusion might well arise from considering the "night of observation" being a continuation day from the daylight day. That is, forgetting that the new day is marked as starting at sundown. The sighting of the first crescent (in daylight or in darkness) marks the beginning of the new week/month from the nearest "sundown". If I see the first crescent at 2 PM, the new day (month) starts at the coming (closest) sundown. If I see the crescent at 9 PM, the new day still started at most recent sundown. In either case, at sundown the new day (and month) started, and that new day, day one, is counted as a work day.

This is a lesson that the Jew has to relearn during the Maccabean revolt, after being almost wiped out from not fighting on Shabbat. No one, neither you, me nor G-d rests while engaged in a battle/war, unless G-d imposes a "Shabbat" on everyone. Again, this has been attested to several times in Israel over the last 60 years. Yes, this even includes G-d's high holy days.

I have been considering this.. and it does sound plausible.

If I may interject a comment, not to answer for Eliyahu, but to offer an idea.

The confusion might well arise from considering the "night of observation" being a continuation day from the daylight day. That is, forgetting that the new day is marked as starting at sundown. The sighting of the first crescent (in daylight or in darkness) marks the beginning of the new week/month from the nearest "sundown". If I see the first crescent at 2 PM, the new day (month) starts at the coming (closest) sundown. If I see the crescent at 9 PM, the new day still started at most recent sundown. In either case, at sundown the new day (and month) started, and that new day, day one, is counted as a work day.
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Still leaves me confused as to whether the first day, cited by some lunar shabbatarians as the worship day is not counted and the count to shabbat starts on day 2 which is then considered a working day.  So which way is right? Sight new moon, day 1 to the nearest "sundown" or sight new moon, still day 1 to the "nearest sundown" but is considered a worship day, so work day begins still on day 2.

I think the majority would say that during the 'night" the first crescent is observed, it is counted as being day one, and a workday (although most would not start their labor until sunrise).

Does that help?

It sure does to me, brother, Art!!   

Clear as Son-light!! I was muddled too; while knowing that shabbat is a rest day, the next day would be a working day AFTER shabbat, regardless if the day begins after sun sets, or, at sunrise.
And if the sighting of the crescent/new moon is not there, it's a longer month/moonth; and still a shabbat, not a working day!

What confused us/me was the 'sound' of the 'shofar' was not clear, and the different time zone.      

So, to emphasize...the day after the evening of the sighting of the new crescent moon IS a WORKING DAY! And, counting...Day 1, starts from there...after the appearing of the new crescent moon, would be the next day!   

Todah rabah!! You're fantastic!!
Ester.

You just hit on one of the driving forces behind Hillel II to attempt to "standardize" the Jewish calendar throughout the Diaspora. Not everyone, throughout the world, will observe the moon at the same time of day, or in the same degree of crescent. When the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem authenticated sightings, that problem was not as great as it is today.

The closest time keeping we have today is the Universal Standard Time (UST, GMT, Zulu, etc.)

Here is a site with a Lunar Calendar. It might be worth your time to investigate it. I run a MAC so the calender won't work for me yet.

http://www.calculatorcat.com/moon_phases/moon_phases.phtml

The problem I have is with the translation of the word Chodesh. I have been looking through the hebrew scriptures, and have yet to find a Rosh Chodesh, which some other lunar Shabbatarians use which then confuses the issue, by making that a 3rd type of day other than a rest and work day. The only time this is commanded is in the seventh month. So the first day of the month is not a rest day and we start the count on that day. It all boils down to the understanding of Chodesh and what it is. There is no Rosh Chodesh.

I can relate to your position and understanding. Yet, the chodesh (kho'-desh) means "the new moon, month, monthly, the first day of the month, or the lunar month in general", all depending on its applied binyanim, meaning the "new moon" see Nu 28:14, sa 81:5 (81:4), and Isa 1:13 as examples.The word is also used in the meaning of renew, repair, a "new thing", etc.

In Nu 10:10, the term "rosh" is added to denote the chief, head, front, or beginning: The beginning of the monthly lunar cycle. So, although it may be a little obscure, Rosh Chodesh is a legitimate biblical term .

I hope this sheds more light on the subject, than mud.
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Sorry, I haven't been able to figure out how to add Hebrew text, which would assist in searching a lexicon.

Hello friends,

I enjoyed reading everyone's comments. I think the Holy Time book provides all the information for this, but perhaps not as concise as it could be.

Let's start discussing this during the dark of the moon at the end of the month. Hey, that's where we are right now, while I'm writing this! 

At our house we call this "the long Sabbath" because it can be up to 3 days in length. In Scripture it is also called "chodesh" because it is the new moon festival period that climaxes with the end of the day in which the new moon is sighted, bringing in the new moon at the start of the new month. That sunset at the end of the long Sabbath/chodesh festival starts day one of the month. Day 1 is a normal work day.

So why do some people call day 1 a Sabbath and start the count toward the next Sabbath from day 2? It's because they don't understand that the period during the dark of the moon is the new moon festival - not day 1. They think day 1 is the new moon festival and therefore a Sabbath. They are mistaken about that, however. The dark of the moon as the new moon festival is thoroughly explained in the Holy Time book. I refer you to that again if more in-depth information is still needed. The fact that the Feast of Trumpets on the 1st day of the 7th month is set apart as a festival day different from all other months is one proof that the 1st day of an ordinary month is not a festival day.

I hope that helps!

Shalom, Eliyahu